Another neat Tango video

Initially, I wasn’t too taken by this EV, and its been around a while, but after seeing it handle and accelerate, it looks like a lot of fun. Instinctively, you think it will tip over around curves, but you have to keep in mind that there are several heavy batteries on the floor, keeping its center of gravity extremely low. It also has a reinforced NASCAR rollcage; so it’s safer than it looks. Commuter Cars Corporation has lofty hopes of getting this car under $20,000; I hope they can do it. Listen to the guy’s reaction to the acceleration at 2:50.

France Betting on Electric Cars

I found this article in RedGreenandBlue.org today:

The French government announced today that it has earmarked a massive €400 million ($549 million) in state support for the development of electric and hybrid cars. The news comes hot on the heels of key pledges on the development of electric cars from Renault and Peugeot-Citroen that signal a major shift in green transport policy across the country.

Speaking at the Paris Motor Show, President Nicolas Sarkozy said the investment is destined “exclusively for the research and development of non-polluting vehicles.” His comments follow earlier announcements from French carmakers Renault SA and PSA Peugeot Citroen of separate agreements with energy company Electricite de France (EdF) to develop and market green vehicles.

In a joint statement with EdF, Peugeot Citroen said that their scheme will support the development of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrids. Meanwhile, the Renault agreement will advance the development of an EV charging infrastructure, enabling a country-wide vehicle launch in 2011.

EdF, which is 85% owned by the French government, runs the worlds biggest fleet of EVs and is developing a ’smart’ charging terminal currently being trialled on Toyota Prius’s in the UK. Using innovative vehicle recognition technology, the system allows drivers to be invoiced directly, irrespective of where they charge their vehicles.

This is very encouraging for the electric car market, but also makes me dissatisfied with our government’s efforts to subsidize electric car development efforts in the US. I can’t imagine what Tesla could do with that kind of money. However the US government is giving our big auto companies a $25 million bailout, with vague stipulations in it to encourage more fuel economy. Hopefully, Detroit will discover sooner rather than later there is money to be made going green.

On the Nissan NuVu

Nissan NuVu

The Nissan NuVu is a an electric micro 3-seater concept that will hopefully be put into production some time in 2010. Judging by the Nissan Press Release below, their intention is to provide an electric car that will not only clear up the air, but ease street congestion in metropolitan areas. The car is 3 meters long and has a wheelbase of 1980 mm, but Nissan promises to provide as much cabin space within that as possible.

This is an interesting excerpt:

Nissan has already announced plans to introduce an all-electric car in Japan and the US in 2010 and to mass-market it globally in 2012. Nuvu is not that car, though it does share some of the technology that will feature in the planned production vehicle. Rather, it is a concept of how a Nissan EV might look in the near future.

So I’m skimming down the release, this is what popped out at me: The NuVu concept utilizes natural wood fiber and rubber in the interior. It also sports solar panels that will give the battery a boost. The release also says the steering is performed by using an aircraft yoke instead of a wheel? That can’t stay. Lithium-Ion batteries… The NuVu concept is rear wheal drive, for anyone interested in doing donuts in it… Pretty long press release and sometimes oddly poetic.

Here is Danny from Dannyscontentment.net speaking with a Nissan spokeswoman:

Full Nissan Press Release

NUVU: RESHAPING THE CITY

Within just a few years, cities all over the world will be at near bursting point. If mankind wants to retain the level of personal mobility it currently enjoys – and if the city is to survive – the only way forward is for a radical rethink of the type of cars driven there. One solution could be a car like Nuvu, designed for the city of the not-too-distant future.

“Nuvu is literally a ‘new view’ at the future of the city car. It is electric, of course, but as far as Nissan is concerned, for tomorrow’s city cars that is a given. No, the most important aspect of Nuvu is the interior design which provides great comfort and space in an intelligent package designed to make best use of our crowded roads and limited parking slots.”

François Bancon, General Manager, Exploratory and Advance Planning Department, Product Strategy and Product Planning Division, Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.

At a glance

* 2 +1 seating in compact 3m package
* Unique platform for Nuvu
* Zero emissions from EV drivetrain
* Drivetrain previews production EV due soon
* X-By-Wire control for all dynamic functions
* Extensive use of natural, organic and recycled materials
* An urban oasis complete with its own tree inside, which…
o … provides shade for the interior, and
o … generates solar energy via its ‘leaves’

Overview
There is about to be a seismic shift in the urban landscape. Within the next five to seven years, some 55 percent of the world’s population will live in the city, threatening total gridlock. Unless something is done, the irony of the phrase ‘personal mobility’ will be self-evident.

Look around at the cars in a typical city traffic jam today and the vast majority will have only one occupant and four empty seats. Some might have two occupants, a few three. But find one with four occupants or more and you’ll be doing very well.

Today, we buy a family car knowing that we’ll only ever need to use it to its full potential one or perhaps two percent of the time. Tomorrow, things will be different. Tomorrow, things have to be different.

“There is a new generation coming up who, finally, are questioning why we do the things we do. They are asking themselves, for example, why they are buying a large car when they know that for 99 percent of the time they will be in it on their own,” says François Bancon, General Manager, Exploratory and Advance Planning Department, Product Strategy and Product Planning Division, Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.

“It is our job to provide personal transportation that is better suited to people’s needs and to what the environment – in all senses – can cope with.”

Nissan’s vision for the future of urban transportation is encapsulated in Nuvu, a ‘new view’ of the type of car we will be driving in the middle of the next decade. Compact – it’s just 3 metres long – Nuvu is a concept vehicle with unique 2+1 seating. It is aimed at urban dwellers who don’t want to compromise on their personal freedom or their comfort, yet who appreciate that ‘something has to give.’

Nuvu is agile, easy to drive, even easier to park. And it is, of course, an electric vehicle (EV). As Bancon says: “We believe zero emission vehicles are one of the key solutions for tomorrow’s city car.”

Nuvu is described as a moving oasis, a haven of green tranquillity in the urban jungle. To underline this message, Nuvu incorporates a witty representation of its green credentials: across its all-glass roof are a dozen or so small solar panels. Shaped like leaves on a branch, the power they generate is fed to the battery using a ‘tree trunk’ within the car as a conduit. Nuvu also uses natural, organic and recycled materials within the cabin.

Nissan has already announced plans to introduce an all-electric car in Japan and the US in 2010 and to mass-market it globally in 2012. Nuvu is not that car, though it does share some of the technology that will feature in the planned production vehicle. Rather, it is a concept of how a Nissan EV might look in the near future.

In the longer term, Nissan foresees a future based around a line-up of zero emission vehicles regardless of their size, category and usage. Nuvu – or its production equivalent – is just one element of this emission-free future.

Nuvu in detail
The central thrust behind the development of Nuvu is not its motive power but its layout and use of space. Nuvu has been created for a city of the future, one that’s even more crowded than today.

That’s why it’s compact on the outside yet roomy on the inside. Built on a unique platform, it’s just 3 metres long and sits on a wheelbase of 1980 mm but is 1700 mm wide and 1550 mm tall to create a large and airy cabin.

Interior package
These dimensions provide all the interior room needed for the vast majority of city journeys. Nuvu has two regular seats and a third occasional chair that can be folded down when required. But, unlike some two-seater city cars currently on the market, it is a thoroughly practical proposition with an integral luggage area providing sufficient space for a typical supermarket or shopping expedition.

“It is a real car,” says Bancon. “There would be no disadvantages to using a Nuvu everyday. For the vast majority of users, three seats are more than enough most of the time.”

The packaging is designed to give priority to driver comfort with C-segment levels of space and the flexibility to invite one or two passengers on board. Cabin layout places the regular passenger seat beside but largely behind the driver’s seat, allowing the passenger to stretch right out. Ahead of this seat is a third occasional chair which, when not in use, is folded away into the dashboard assembly. But even when the third seat is in use, there remains sufficient legroom for both passengers.

In the interests of saving both weight and space, the third seat has a centre section made from hardwearing yet comfortable netting. This hammock-like approach also has the benefit of allowing cool or warm air to circulate around the occupant’s body for extra comfort.

Shopping bags, briefcases and smaller items of luggage can be stowed behind the driver’s seat while if the driver is travelling solo, larger items can be stowed in the passenger footwall.

City car research
“We did a great deal of research into how people use their cars in the city. We found that for 90 percent of the time, the driver was alone. For five percent of the time there was one passenger and for four percent of the time there were two passengers. You can do the math to find out how often four or more people were in the car!” says Bancon.

“We gave the second seat much more room than normal because when you take one passenger in your car it is usually someone you love and you want to make sure he or she is being carried in outstanding comfort,” he adds.

Natural materials
Many of the materials used inside Nuvu reflect an increasing concern for the environment. The floor is made from wood fibres pressed into laminate sheets and is studded with rubber inserts made from recycled tyres for grip.

To create a light and bright interior, the windscreen and roof merge into one extended panel running virtually the entire length of the car. But undoubtedly the most unusual feature of the interior is the ‘energy tree’ which rises from the luggage compartment floor to the roof behind the driver’s seat.

Solar panels
The energy tree is shaped like a thin trunk. As it reaches daylight it branches out under the glass roof providing occupants with protection from bright sunlight… just like a real tree. And providing a visual reminder of Nuvu’s green credentials, covering the branches are dozens of small solar panels shaped like leaves.

The panels absorb energy from the sun which is then fed back down the energy tree and used to help recharge the battery and provide an extra power boost for the electric motor. As well as being genuinely green energy, it is estimated that the power generated via the solar panels will save the equivalent of one full overnight charge from mains electricity each month.

Driver controls are as simple as possible. All the major functions – steering, braking, transmission and throttle – are ‘By-Wire’ while the steering is controlled by an aircraft-style steering yoke: with just one turn from lock to lock, the steering is very direct for agility and manoeuvrability in the city. Nuvu’s turning circle is just 3.7 metres. Thanks to its wide track and the use of 16 inch 165/55 tyres mounted on lightweight, almost transparent, wheels, ride comfort, stability and agility is of the highest order.

There are two pedals – for stop and go – stalks for minor controls and a digital instrument panel with dials for speed, distance covered and battery range. The instrument panel itself is formed of layers – rather like an onion – and like the energy tree is another example of design inspired by nature. “We call it bio-mimicry,” says Bancon.

Rear view/parking monitor
Two screens on the dashboard display the view behind the car – there are no door mirrors to disturb the airflow, but small cameras – and double as monitors for the Around View Camera which give a bird’s eye view of the car when manoeuvering or parking.

Saving energy was the guiding force behind the use of low-energy LED head and tail lamps, while Nuvu’s heating and ventilation system filters and cleans the city air as it passes through the vehicle. Not only does it produce no emissions at source, but Nuvu actually helps clean up the city environment.

Exterior and interior design
“Nuvu’s design is further clear evidence of Nissan’s continued desire to challenge convention and to explore all the possibilities that the EV could bring us. In many ways it was inspired by our two most extreme EVs of recent times: Mixim and Pivo 2.

“Significantly, though, Nuvu delivers a more realistic interpretation of two of the most important aspects of its forerunners – the ‘Friendly Innovation’ found in Pivo 2 and the ‘Sports Dynamics’ central to Mixim

“The result? We have designed a radical concept car that with just a few changes could go into production tomorrow,” explains Masato Inoue, Chief Designer, Product Design Department, Nissan Motor Co., Ltd.

Developed by designers at Creative Box Inc. – Nissan’s design think-tank – Nuvu’s green house has flowing lines with gentle curves inspired by nature. The distinctive shape of the door glass on either side gives the impression of a hot air balloon that’s being gently inflated by pressure from within, while tropical fish inspired the profile of the side window graphics as a whole.

This contrast between the natural, fluid shape of the greenhouse and the strength implied by the solidity of the lower body gives Nuvu a feeling of quality rarely found in a compact car.

Colour and materials
Nuvu’s visual impact is further enhanced by its unique body colour. Developed by Nissan Design, the shade is officially called Soft Feel Sandy Gold.

Matching the ecological values of an electric vehicle, the moulded plastics and synthetic elements found inside a typical production car have been replaced by natural materials and organic alternatives, such as the wood fibres and rubber from car tyres used for the flooring. The result helps create a relaxed, warm atmosphere within Nuvu’s cabin.

During the design development stage, key targets were to develop an EV that encompassed obvious modernity with engaging ambience and a playful aspect – hence the energy tree. “You don’t need to be a car lover to fall in love with Nuvu,” adds Bancon.

EV drivetrain
Nuvu is more than a styling concept of a future EV. It is a fully working mobile test bed for much of the technology that will be used in Nissan’s production EV to be launched in 2010. For this reason elements of its technical specification are being kept secret for the time being.

The electric motor used in Nuvu is mounted at the rear of the vehicle and drives the back wheels, though neither its exact specification nor the power and torque figures are being released at this stage. A driving range of 125 kms and top speed of 120 km/h are being made public, however.

Li-Ion battery
Similarly although it can be revealed that the batteries used are of the latest laminated lithium-ion type and have a capacity of 140 Wh/kg (watt-hours per kilogram), the total capacity of the batteries and number of modules are not being disclosed at this stage.

Nissan began research into high output Li-Ion cells as long ago as 1992, but today development is carried out by Automotive Energy Supply Corp. (AESC), a joint venture company set up by Nissan and NEC Group.

Unlike a conventional lithium-ion battery with its bulky cylindrical cells, the laminated Li-Ion battery as used in Nuvu has thin laminated cells and fewer components overall. This boosts its power by a factor of 1.5 at the same time as halving its physical size. It also remains twice as efficient as a conventional cylindrical Li-Ion battery even after five years or 100,000 kms of continuous usage.

Another bonus of the compact cell construction is that a thin modular design is possible with a commensurate improvement in battery cooling efficiency. Higher power outputs are achieved through material improvements made to its lithium manganate positive electrode and carbon negative electrode. The use of chemically stable spinal-structured manganese for the positive electrode also helps ensure safe operation.

Its compact size allows the batteries to be mounted under the seats and the vehicle’s flat floor, thus helping to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible.

A quick charge from empty to full should take between 10 to 20 minutes while a full charge should take between three to four hours from a domestic 220V socket.

Typical users
“The people who will be drawn to a car like Nuvu are many and varied,” says Bancon. “It is a cross generational car and not a signature vehicle for one generation.

“There will be common threads, however. They will be early adopters but more importantly they regard themselves as urban citizens. They don’t just work or live in the city; they are part of the city. They want a car that somehow expresses who they are and which reflects their personal ideology.”

Conclusion
Although clearly a concept vehicle exploring aspects of future vehicle design, Nuvu nevertheless embodies many messages for today. Its clever interior provides ample headroom, legroom and comfort for most everyday needs without occupying more road space than it needs.

The use of recycled and natural materials underlines Nuvu’s environmental message and while the energy tree might be considered as a piece of whimsy, the use of solar energy is an entirely sensible and practical technological solution to aid an emission free future.

“Nuvu is a concept car, for sure, but it is an entirely credible vehicle,” says Bancon. “It is light, clean and easy to drive. It is practical and a sensible size, yet it is also embodies an element of fun: the future doesn’t look so bad, after all.”

On the Tango

I mean George Clooney’s got one, what else do I have to say?
Clooney Tango

The Tango is a plug-in EV produced by Commuter Cars Corporation. It may look like a small economy car, but the Tango is neither cheap nor slow. This in-line two-seater will rocket from 0-60 in 4 seconds and can reach a top speed of 135 mph. It meets or exceeds the performance specs of electric supercars like the Tesla Roadster and the Venturi Fetish. It’s price is comparable too, at $108,000. Just watch how a Google exec weaves through highway traffic as Danny from DannysContentment.net holds on for dear life in the backseat:

Also, I was intrigued by Danny’s other Tango video with Google’s solar powered charging station in their parking lot. Hats off to them; what an amazing glimpse into the future. If we could have these at more workplaces, it certainly would make a greener world. Maybe a tax write off as incentive for more companies to put these up would make some execs feel greener:

This is the complete, company released car specifications from commutercars.com:

Tango T600 (kit) Specifications:

(Subject to change.)

Width: 39″ (5″ narrower than a Honda Gold Wing)
Length: 8’5″ long, allowing it to park perpendicular to the curb.
Height: 60″
Ground Clearance: 4″
Weight: 3,150 lbs.
Distribution: 43/57 (percent front/rear)
Batteries: 19 Hawker Genesis G70EP lead acid batteries. Li-Ion batteries are optional.
Nominal Voltage: 228 V with 19 Hawkers (350 V with Li-Ion batteries)
Battery Weight: 988 lbs. (Hawker)
Charging: 40 amp on-board charger with Avcon conductive coupling. 200 amp off-board charger under development.
Steering: Rack and pinion with Cadillac CTS collapsible steering column and Momo Corse steering wheel
Front Suspension: Unequal length A-arm with coil-over Carrera shocks.
Rear Suspension: Trailing arm with coil-over Carrera shocks.
Controller: Zilla Z2K motor controller, providing up to 2,000 Amps at 350 Volts (600 kW). Designed and built by Otmar Ebenhoech at Café Electric LLC in Corvalis, OR.
Motors: 2 Advanced DC FB1-4001 9″ motors, one driving each rear wheel with over 1,000 ft-lb of combined torque at low rpms. 8,000 rpm redline.
Transmission: 2 direct drive gear boxes designed by Bert Transmission of St-Constant, Québec, the leading manufacturer of dirt circle track race car transmissions. 10 available ratios from 2.92:1 to 5:1. Standard ratio is 3.86:1. Splined axles can be easily locked together with center sleeve.
Hubs/Wheel Bearings: As used on the Mazda Miata.
Wheels: König alloy wheels: 14 x 6 front/15 x 6.5 rear, 4-100 bolt pattern
Tires: Toyo Proxes T1R: 195/45R14 front; 215/45R15 rear
Brakes: Mazda Miata calipers with Hawk HP Plus (rear) and HPS (front) pads. Wilwood master cylinder and pedal assembly.
HVAC: 12,000 BTU Vintage Air air conditioning system driven by variable speed AC motor for predictable climate control. 3,000 W electric heater for instant-on, powerful heating.
Seating: Tandem Sparco custom bucket seats with 4-point aircraft pilot harnesses on attached structures. Passenger straddles the front seat and harness structures which do not interfere with the passenger’s knees.
Storage: Passenger and a few bags of groceries with rear seat installed. Removed, it allows 2 very large suitcases and a large breifcase with the driver’s seat in extended position. (Rear seat with harness structure is removable through rear hatch.) Multiple compartments for smaller items.
Headroom: 39″ driver and passenger.
Trailer Hitch: Accepts standard 1.25″ hitch for towing generator cart for extended range. Front hitch for moving small airplanes.
Note: Projected performance specifications will vary depending on final weight, gearing, tires, and batteries used. Acceleration figures assume racing slicks are used on a drag strip.
Range: 40-60 miles maximum with Lead-Acid batteries
over 150 miles with Li-Ion batteries
Cost per Mile: About 1/2 the cost of a gasoline car for the average commuter. (See note.)
Acceleration: 0 to 60 MPH, about 4 seconds. 1/4 mile time about 12 seconds at a speed of approx. 120 MPH (See note.)
Top Speed: 135 MPH (See note.)

Notes:

Cost per Mile:

The average round-trip commute in the U.S. is 20 miles according to the 2000 report from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics.

For that average commute of 20 miles and up to 24 miles per charge, the total cost per mile of the Tango is approximately 30% lower than that of a Honda Insight. This includes battery replacement, maintenance, and the cost of electricity at $.05 per kWh (as in the Northwest). The Honda Insight has an EPA rating of 56 mpg city and 57 highway. Please see the Cost-per-Mile Spreadsheet for details. This spreadsheet shows how the Tango compares with other vehicles, both Internal Combustion Engine (ICE)-driven and hybrid. It includes gasoline and recommended dealer maintenance costs for the gasoline cars and electricity, maintenance, and battery replacement costs for the Tango.

In California where electricity rates are nearly $.15 per kWh, the total cost per mile for the Tango becomes roughly equal to that of the Insight. Electricity cost per mile runs from 0.9 cents to 2.6 cents as cost per kWh goes from 5 cents to 15 cents.

Acceleration:

0 to 60 MPH, about 4 seconds. 1/4 mile time about 12 seconds at a speed of approximately 120 MPH. These figures are based on comparisons with other cars that hold official records with NEDRA (National Electric Drag Racing Association). Calculations have taken weight, motor torque, controller, voltage, gear ratio, and traction into consideration. They assume that racing slicks are fitted and driven on a drag strip with good traction conditions. For example, the world record held for a dragster used the same controller as the Tango in the Current Eliminator IV, with a quarter mile time of 8.801 seconds at 137.65 MPH. The Tango has the same motors that the Maniac Mazda used to achieve an 11.039 second quarter mile at 111.80 MPH.

Top Speed:

135 MPH. This is a limitation based on a practical red-line for the motors of about 8,000 RPM with the standard 3.86:1 gear ratio. Top speed vs. acceleration can be traded off by choosing any of 10 different ratios from 2.92:1 giving a top speed of 172 MPH to 5:1 which would give a top speed of 100 MPH. The 5:1 would give phenomenal acceleration if you could get enough traction.

ZENN, EEStor, and LightEVs Love Triangle

There seems to be a lot of confusion recently concerning who owns the rights to EEstor’s breakthrough (hopefully) battery technology. Let me simplify it to the best of my knowledge:

ZENN- as of April 2007 ZENN has exclusive rights to EEStor’s capacitors (EESU) for use in small 4-wheeled vehicles.

Lockheed Martin- as of January 9, 2008 Lockheed Martin has exclusive rights to integrate and market EESU units in military and homeland security applications.

LightEV- as of September 24, 2008, LightEV has exclusive rights to EESU units for two and three wheeled vehicles.

So basically, none of these overlap. ZENN still has exclusive rights to use EEstor’s game changing technology in their four wheeled vehicles. LightEV, who nobody has ever heard of, seems to have really pulled a fast one, and gained exclusive rights to make three and two wheeled vehicles with it. I mean, look at the LightEV site. A lot of three wheeled and two wheeled electric vehicle producing companies are probably kicking themselves right now. I’m looking at you, Aptera, Zap!, VentureOne.

In April 2008 ZENN Motor Company announced that a future highway speed electric vehicle using EEStor’s capacitors will achieve 80 mph (130 km/h) speeds, 250 mile (400 km) range and charge in 5 minutes. EEStor also claimed it would weigh 90% less than conventional batteries. That is how powerful this technology could potentially be. But ZENN stated later in May, “[The Batteries] are still under development and there can be no assurance that it will be successfully commercialized at all or on a timely basis.” This was in the latest press release on the ZENN homepage. Anyways, the hype surrounding the EEStor technology seems to be tapering off, with rumors that it might not be much of a breakthrough after all. Some say the government got hold of it when EEStor signed with Lockheed Martin, hiding it with Bigfoot and the Area 51 aliens. You never know.

[Edit] The official name of the company is LightEVs, not LightEV.

Play by Play of 60 Minutes’ Electric Car Episode [VIDEO]


Watch CBS Videos Online

:25- “The jury is still out on whether electric cars can ever really be practical”

The EV1 and Toyota Rav-4 EV showed us that electric cars could be completely viable alternatives over 10 years ago, using lead-acid batteries.

:58- “This (Tesla Roadster) is the first, all electric sports car…”

C’mon Lesley, you’re better than that. Forget the Venturi Fetish, Hybrid Technology’s LiV Rush, the Wrightspeed, and the Tzero; the Tesla Roadster was the first electric sports car. Why? Because an intern at CBS Googled it.

2:50-Enter Bob Lutz, Vice Chairman of GMBob Lutz

Is it me or could this man talk me out of driving a Ferrari off the lot for 10 grand. He is a terrible spokesman. He just sounds like he would rather be playing with his helicopters, his countless sports cars, and his Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet in German Luftwaffe colors (image right).  It sounds like hes doing this because he doesn’t want to be embarrassed by Tesla, not because he believes in the product.

4:13- “GM is already touting the car even though don’t yet have a working prototype.”

Really, not even a working prototype? GM had EV1’s with 160 mile ranges before they canceled the program.  What happened?

4:25- “The real trick on the car, is software. The car needs to know where home plate is.” -Lutz

Oh, thats the holdup.  The hold up is developing a completely unnecessary amenity that will tell the car how close you are to home.  Use GPS, hook it up to the gasoline activation system, done deal.  Why are they even working on this? If the charge is low, the gasoline extender should just come on regardless of where you are, for safety’s sake.  This is like delaying a trip to Mars because they can’t decide what color to paint the ship.

5:55- “People say, I hope you enjoy the billions you got from the oil companies, you swine” -Lutz

Well, do you?

8:45- Ethanol and hydrogen all had problems, won’t that happen with the electric car?

Ray Lane- “It could.”

Come on man, your selling electric cars. You should have a practiced response to this.  New, cheap, clean, and renewable sources of electricity are being built every day.  Electric cars can run off electricity that is available everywhere.  The infrastructure is already here, as well as the technology; electric cars are the only vehicles that can someday have absolutely no carbon emissions. You cannot compare it to ethanol and hydrogen.  Those were fake solutions to begin with. Why? Because the oil companies want to sell ethanol and hydrogen.

10:20- Yeah, but they (silicon valley) have no experience in the car business…-Lutz

Grasping for straws…